Jan 19

Brother Joe Blatz did a Facebook post that started a conversation on looking to Jesus, where Works come in, and how it is wrong to try to get Christians to have good works by using guilt. You will have to become a friend to Joe to follow the conversation on Facebook.

Joe Nsusan Blatz
I no longer need to strive for a position with God! I am proud to admit that I AM a child of God, I AM a saint, holy and blameless before God, I AM crucified, I AM sanctified, I AM seated in the heavelies, I have been given ALL things that pertain unto life and godliness, Jesus DOES love me. I am not proud in that I have somehow acheived these things with my own works, but am absolutely and completely proud that my salvation is in Christ Jesus. When he said it was finished, he meant it.
Sat at 9:44am

Neil NJustina Blatz
Well put Joe.
Sat at 11:01am

Victor Wiëbe
Preach it, brother! We have it all in Christ!
Sat at 11:11am

John N Lisa Bueckert
Sat at 12:51pm

Pete Friesen
There is a lot of truth here.
Sat at 1:15pm

Bob Mutch
I agree that the Christian should not be striving for a position with God! But I believe the scriptures support we are to strive to be more of what he wants us to be BECAUSE we love him.

Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

2Pet 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Yesterday at 6:44am

Pete Friesen
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Yesterday at 11:09pm

Bob Mutch
@Pete Friesen, that is a good scripture also brother. God indeed works in us not only to will but to do. Would you agree there is also a part for us to do?
13 hours ago

Pete Friesen
Christians have no worth in themselves, before God. God respects no man’s person. We esteem each other by what we have done in the flesh, but not God. He either looks at us and sees Christ or He sees a ungodly heathen sinner worthy of the fires of hell. I liken the Apostle Paul’s approach this way… In the Marine Corps soldiers are constantly told…
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12 hours ago

Bob Mutch
@Peter what about my question? Would you agree there is also a part for us to do?

Or has it been all done for us and all we need to do is abide in Christ and let him do this work in us.
12 hours ago ·

Dan NLisa Blatz
We get in a right relationship with God through the work of Jesus for us, we will gain or lose rewards based on the work we do in response. In my understanding one of the best ways to lay up rewards in heaven is by pointing people away from their doings and toward the doings of Christ! This is our work ( among others).
11 hours ago

Bob Mutch
@Dan would you feel like there are any conditions for receiving salvation or after we have received it to keeping salvation.
11 hours ago ·

Dan NLisa Blatz
I do actually… The just shall live by faith. In the studies that I have done, when there are warnings to the believer to continue it is in reference to faith. We need to hold fast our rejoicing in hope ( faith in anticipation) firm until the end.
So my goal has been to persuade men to continue trusting in the work completed for them. This has always, in my experiences, resulted in plenty of good works.
10 hours ago

Bob Mutch
I would agree that the condition for keeping salvation is faith (if your statement was meant to answer my question).

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 Peter 1:5
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Ephesians 6:16
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked

Is there post-salvation things we can do besides abiding in God to increase our faith? Will reading of the Word and praying increase our faith and give us more victory?

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
10 hours ago

Pete Friesen
Great points Bob and Dan. @Bob Our right doing (as far as getting to God is concerned) is dung. We need this other righteousness that comes when we believe that what Jesus did is enough to get us right with God and into heaven. That righteousness is God’s. God’s goal for His children is a relationship of faith. So the question I ask is, where should our affection and focus lie throughout our life? Should it be on greater and more numerable works? Or should it be on Jesus?

Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Paul says in Gal 2:20 that the life that he now lives in the flesh, he lives by the Faith of the Son of God (not by works)
Personally I find that the more I focus on Christ and not on myself, the more joyful I am and the more apt I am towards good works. The works then come out of love for Him and not out of a of guilt.
about an hour ago

Bob Mutch
@Pete, I agree that right doing post-salvation is filthy rags. I agree that Christian works come naturally and are the out flow from true biblical faith.

“Faith without works is dead.”

Works must be done from the heart and I would think that works that are done from guilt are not Christian works.

I would also agree that our main focus must be on the life, death and resurrection of Christ not on ourselves.

I would hold the view that to get saved there is a part for us to do. Seek God, repent, believe in the heart on the finished work of Christ. None will seek God with out preceding grace. So God starts the seeking no us. If mankind was left to its self we would never seek God. God always makes the first step.

After we get saved there is God’s part and man’s part.

We are told we are able to increase our faith by reading or hearing the Word of God (Rom 10:17) and through prayer (Jude 1:20). If it is faith the over comes the world, if we are keep by the power of God through faith, and if we quench all the sinful temptational darts of Satan with the shield of faith — doesn’t it only make bibical sense that we should then put some importance in reading and praying?

Should we tell people just to look on Christ and focus on Christ or should we ALSO tell them the importance of reading and praying.

The instructions to work out our salvation, to hunger and thirst, to perfect holiness are numerous in the scriptures. So if the scriptures tells us to do these thing we don’t want to be wiser than the scriptures. We need to provoke one another unto love and good works (Heb 10:24).

Should we not tell one another to look for the coming of Christ knowing that those that “hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1John 3:3).

Pete does more than just tell people to look to Jesus and focus on him but the tells them “Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness” (2Pet 3:11).

And the list goes on.

So yes look to Jesus. Yes let your affection and focus on the life of Jesus AND following his example.
48 minutes ago

Pete Friesen
I agree with you Bob. Just as long as our affection (singular) is on Christ and not on ourselves. I have heard a lot of preaching over the years and most of it focuses and treats bible reading and prayer like a punishment. Guilt is used as a motivating force to get people to do more (pound them into submission), and I see it as counter productive. All it does is place people back under the law (covenant of works) and kills all their joy. I have seen this over and over. Having said that I have no problem with provoking others to good works as long as it is done in a proper manner (by example would be a good one).
13 minutes ago

Bob Mutch
We should see ourselves as unprofitable servants and put ALL our affection on Christ.

Preaching should be by leading not by trying to beat the sheep into good works. Get them truly saved, then looking to Jesus, and then point them in the right direction by example and they will follow right along.

Works by guilt is bondage. God isn’t looking for works he is looking for our love and life. He wants us to serve from love.

Looks like we are on the same page!
7 minutes ago

Pete Friesen
I agree.
5 minutes ago

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